Talk:Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
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Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2025
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I request the removal of the following sentence:
"Throughout human evolution, the EFs involved in ADHD likely provide the capacity to bind contingencies across time thereby directing behaviour toward future over immediate events so as to maximise future social consequences for humans.[153]"
Reasons:
1) It is incomprehensible, even for a specialist in this field whom I consulted. Completely unclear what is the message, even more so for the normal reader. 2) It is a direct quote from the source article abstract. The writing is so bad we suspect the article may be AI-generated. Can't discuss it on pubpeer though as it does not even have a DOI, like a proper scientific article. Hence, it should probably not be used as a reliable source at all. 3) The "EFs" mentioned in the sentence are defined in the original source article, but not in the wikipedia section where it appears. The sentence is pasted out of context and takes away rather than adds to this section.
Alternatively, please rewrite to make the relevant conclusions of the source article clear.
Thanks for your time. Xevaycrirth (talk) 18:52, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
- No, it is not "AI generated" because you find the writing unclear. It is a peer-reviewed source, as evidenced by the citation linking to the database of the American Psychological Association to the systematic review of self-regulation and executive functions published by Russell Barkley, one of the world's most forefront experts on ADHD. Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 12:36, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
- That said, I do agree we should define what "EF" means as the abbreviation hasn't thus far been used in the article. So I will change "EFs" to "executive functions" for clarity. Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 12:38, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
Done Addressed by Димитрий Улянов Иванов. —Sirdog (talk) 19:55, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
- @Димитрий Улянов Иванов: I'm also struggling to understand this poorly written sentence and can't obtain online access to the original source (Barkley's chapter). As the sentence is directly copied from the abstract we need to paraphrase it because of copyright, anyway -- hopefully we can made its meaning clearer! The key part that's indecipherable to me is
"bind contingencies across time"
; the rest makes sense but its meaning is made unclear because of this phrase. Perhaps you could take a look at the original source when you have time and paraphrase it in layman's terms for us? Jr8825 • Talk 10:19, 29 January 2025 (UTC)- Certainly I will take note of this and reply here once I can, I appreciate your checking of this issue. Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Hi @Jr8825, sorry for the belated reply. By binding contingencies, the authors are referring to the temporal organisation of goals and events into one underlying goal. It might help to give a real life of example: if I promised to meet someone at a restaurant I'd have to take into account the time I need for preparation, traffic, weather, finding the location, and other factors.. These are all separate tasks but can be combined for the pursuit of the main goal of meeting the person at the restaurant. However, someone with executive functioning deficits (as seen in ADHD) may find it significantly harder to plan and organise their behaviour over time to that one main goal hence how it's reflected with their propensity for lateness, forgetfulness, showing up disorganised, etc. which impairs their social functioning in this context. Executive functions like inhibition and verbal and non-verbal working memory involved largely to facilitate social cooperation and thus help us address our longer-term welfare better.
- With all of that said, as the term hasn't been contextualised in that sentence it is indeed confusing for readers so I would reword "bind contingencies" to something else, such as "organise behaviour over time". Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 13:03, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
- @Димитрий Улянов Иванов: I'm also struggling to understand this poorly written sentence and can't obtain online access to the original source (Barkley's chapter). As the sentence is directly copied from the abstract we need to paraphrase it because of copyright, anyway -- hopefully we can made its meaning clearer! The key part that's indecipherable to me is
"Heritability rate of 70-80%" might be misleading
[edit]In the lead section, fifth paragraph: "Meta-analyses have shown that the disorder is primarily genetic with a heritability rate of 70-80%, where risk factors are highly accumulative."
Since heritability is an often misunderstood concept there should be some explanation of what the sentence means. 50.53.85.74 (talk) 00:12, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hi there! It is not quite clear which explanation you would like to see. Please tell us! Lova Falk (talk) 17:20, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
To-do
[edit]Please feel free to contribute.
- Rewrite and shorten summary of 2025 life expectancy study in #Prognosis, replace news sources with academic literature or science journalism.
- Continuation rates into adulthood and prevalence figures in #Prognosis and #Epidemiology: expand on widely ranging literature: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]; Include range in updated European consensus statement
- Replace excerpt section #Problematic digital media use with shortened summary
- Keep an eye on section sizes (current readable prose size as of 12/02/25 is 10458, within the limits of WP:SIZERULE)
- Read 2024 review article on ADHD in adults and include if helpful (available free via the WP:LIBRARY).
Jr8825 • Talk 03:08, 12 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Jr8825. Medical topics are not my area, but I was recently diagnosed and a friend told me about rejection sensitive dysphoria—emotional sensitivity caused by real or imagined rejection. I can see a lot of material about it online but it isn't mentioned in the article. I am not the expert here but I don't think it's a fringe topic. I've found the following resources but please double check them as I cannot vouch for their quality:
- Ginapp, Callie M.; Greenberg, Norman R.; MacDonald-Gagnon, Grace; Angarita, Gustavo A.; Bold, Krysten W.; Potenza, Marc N. (2023-10-12). ""Dysregulated not deficit": A qualitative study on symptomatology of ADHD in young adults". PLOS ONE. 18 (10): e0292721. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0292721. ISSN 1932-6203. Archived from the original on 2025-02-06.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - Beaton, Danielle M.; Sirois, Fuschia; Milne, Elizabeth (February 12, 2025). "Experiences of criticism in adults with ADHD: A qualitative study". PLOS ONE. 17 (2).
- Ginapp, Callie M.; Greenberg, Norman R.; MacDonald-Gagnon, Grace; Angarita, Gustavo A.; Bold, Krysten W.; Potenza, Marc N. (2023-10-12). ""Dysregulated not deficit": A qualitative study on symptomatology of ADHD in young adults". PLOS ONE. 18 (10): e0292721. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0292721. ISSN 1932-6203. Archived from the original on 2025-02-06.
- It would have been very helpful for me, personally, to see this a long time ago, so thought I would ask about it. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 14:22, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- Hi ImaginesTigers, I found a short paragraph about this and copied it into this article. I kept the social rejection parts because earlier in this article, it says: "About half of children and adolescents with ADHD experience social rejection by their peers compared to 10–15% of non-ADHD children and adolescents." What do you think about this paragraph? Lova Falk (talk) 15:58, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
- Hi Jr8825. Medical topics are not my area, but I was recently diagnosed and a friend told me about rejection sensitive dysphoria—emotional sensitivity caused by real or imagined rejection. I can see a lot of material about it online but it isn't mentioned in the article. I am not the expert here but I don't think it's a fringe topic. I've found the following resources but please double check them as I cannot vouch for their quality:
Burden to Society
[edit]The line "The disorder costs society hundreds of billions of US dollars each year, worldwide" exists solely to put the topic in a political light, painting those with a disability as a burden to society.
Medical topics should not be used to have a sly debate about whether or not those with the medical condition should or should not be supported by society. If this existed on the alzheimers page or dementia people would rightfully and immediately recognise it and remove it. Why not here?
Eugenicspedia 2A02:C7C:4624:8100:50F6:6460:74E6:1A2D (talk) 03:53, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
- First of all, you are projecting your own assumption of a political bias when in fact there is none. Its inclusion in the article was done to reflect the global scientific consensus. The International Consensus Statement on ADHD highlights it as one of five of the most key research findings (see: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342100049X).
- It is also equally if not more plausible that the finding encourages policymakers to invest more resources into diagnosis, treatment, accommodations and protections to help with reducing people's impairments. That is antithetical to stigmatising people with ADHD.Димитрий Улянов Иванов (talk) 14:21, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Accident/injury type, and overall risk, changes over lifespan
[edit]In the "Comorbidities" section, [Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder#Non-psychiatric|"Non-psychiatric"] subsection, an error in punctuation can confuse readers in this phrase:
- "In June 2021, Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews published a systematic review of 82 studies that all confirmed or implied elevated accident-proneness in ADHD patients and whose data suggested that the type of accidents or injuries and overall risk changes in ADHD patients over the lifespan."
The sentence phrase is largely copied verbatim (and possibly in violation of WP:COPYVIO) from the cited source...
- (Brunkhorst-Kanaan N, Libutzki B, Reif A, Larsson H, McNeill RV, Kittel-Schneider S (June 2021). "ADHD and accidents over the life span - A systematic review". Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews. 125. Elsevier: 582–591. doi:10.1016/j.neubiorev.2021.02.002. PMID 33582234. S2CID 231885131.)
...which states, in the study's abstract, that:
- Our results suggested that accident/injury type and overall risk changes in ADHD patients over the lifespan.
However, a closer, more thorough reading of the source reveals that the source abstract's sentence should have commas (or em-dashes) separating the phrase "and overall risk" -- as a separate topic from "accident/injury type". This is exemplified by the fact that each phrase has its own separate topic subsection in the source article:
- 3.1. Is there a change in the risk of accidents and injuries over the lifespan in ADHD?
- ...and...
- 3.2. ADHD and accidents – does the type of accident/injury change over time?
Thus, for clarity -- and to avoid verbatim transcription that might violate copyright -- I've modified the sentence to read:
- "In June 2021, Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews published a systematic review of 82 studies that all confirmed or implied elevated accident-proneness in ADHD patients and whose data suggested that the type of accidents or injuries -- and overall risk -- changes over the lifespan of ADHD patients."
Penlite (talk) 03:02, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
Like Good work! Lova Falk (talk) 17:14, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
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